The VSBA: Gorr VS Zamasu (Marvel Vs Dragon Ball)


“Is man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders?” -Friedrich Nietzsche

Gorr, the God Butcher

Zamasu, the One True God

In the history of storytelling, the dichotomy between god and man has been explored since the very beginning. Within our modern mythology, both god and mortalkind alike have been faced with many challenges, but perhaps none are as opposed to the very idea of the other’s existence as today’s combatants. Will all gods be cut down from heaven and drown in a sea of darkness, or will all mortals be cleansed from the Earth by the light of justice? Or, perhaps, is all life doomed to be consumed by a universe destined to war against itself? Find out in this DEATH BATTLE!

Before we begin…

This blog will analyze Gorr’s 616 comic appearances, fairly straightforward. Media like the MCU obviously won't be included. While some guidebooks were looked at for Gorr, they ultimately didn't add much.

As for Zamasu, this blog will be a soft composite of both the anime and manga for Dragon Ball Super, as both versions are adaptations of Toriyama’s outline for DBS. For the original Dragon Ball series and Z, the manga (alongside other manga written by Toriyama that share a universe with Dragon Ball) will be treated as the primary canon. Many modern blogs use the anime for Dragon Ball Z as a secondary canon, but original content from the anime won't be highlighted here as it frankly doesn't change anything for Zamasu specifically.

Citations:

Background

Gorr

“There are no other butchers like me, god of thunder. Like a man? I ceased being one of those long ago. But I will never be one of you. I am so much more than a god. I am a force of nature. Gods may walk on water, but Gorr is the sea, and the sea is tired of being trod upon. You have my permission to drown now, gods of Asgard.”

Thousands of years ago on a planet with no name, a young Gorr was taught to honor the gods. It was his people’s belief that the stars were the eyes of his ancestors who had proven themselves worthy of the gods' embrace, and that the sun was the resting place of the damned, with every dead sinner adding to the heat of the sun and burning the world evermore. Gorr was taught these beliefs by his mother, who had been widowed due to Gorr’s father dying of sun fever. It was on a day of honoring the gods with the last of their food that Gorr was forced to run away from his mother, being spared the horror of watching her get ripped apart by sand tigers. Despite growing up a skilled hunter, Gorr was unable to provide enough food for his wife and children, with his pregnant wife Arra echoing the beliefs of his dead mother. Due to putting their lives in the hands of the gods and remaining in their cave instead of walking out into the sun, their cave collapsed and Gorr watched as Arra fell to her death with their unborn child still inside her. Months later, being struck by starvation and scorching heat, Gorr was forced to bury his last child. With his fellow tribesmen scorning him for not following traditional burial customs, Gorr lashed out at them, claiming there were no gods to save them and that their sacrifices towards them had been a waste of time. His people struck him to near death with stones and left him to rot in the sun, all Gorr could wish for was the release of death, a death with no afterlife waiting for him. It was then that two beings came falling from the sky, two gods slaying one another in battle. Astonished by the existence of the divine, Gorr was then driven into a rage when one of the gods begged for help. Lashing out at the god for not extending a hand to him or his people despite all they sacrificed, Gorr would then be bonded to the dark sword wielded by the other slain god, rejuvenating him and giving him enough power to butcher his first god. After bathing in godblood, one thought crossed Gorr’s mind; “I wonder if there are more?”. And thus began the saga of Gorr the God Butcher.

Gorr scoured the cosmos, slaying any immortal in his path. His rampage took him from world to world, mindlessly killing god after god with his only goal being to purge all existence of the divine. Gorr had slain many gods of war, chaos, genocide, death, and even a few gods of poetry and flowers. However, it was his encounter with the god of thunder that changed his mindset completely. Battling a young Thor in the skies of Russia, he was the first Asgardian Gorr had encountered. Nearly killing him, Thor was able to force Gorr to retreat after striking him with thunder. Tracking Gorr down to a cave, Thor’s pride forced him to face Gorr alone, this would be one of his worst mistakes in his century-spanning life. Gorr was able to quickly restrain Thor and began torturing him, hoping to learn what land he came from. Despite his knack for torture, being able to force a god of torture into giving up information, Thor endured his onslaught of pain for 17 days straight without rest. It was then that Thor’s viking allies had finally caught up with him, throwing their lives away in hopes of freeing him from Gorr’s clutches. Gorr was dumbfounded, he had met many mortals willing to throw their lives away for gods, but none who would do so with such wicked glee. This opening allowed Thor to break free and sever one of Gorr’s limbs with an axe, forcing Gorr to retreat by faking his death. Gorr’s gameplan would change from this point forward; if he wanted to slay the gods, he would need an army of his own.

Over the next couple thousands of years, Gorr would continue his deicide, now leaving behind a trail of Black Berserkers to attack any gods who may stumble across the corpses of his victims. It was one god in particular named Shadrak who caught his interest, for he was the god of bombs. After having his eyelids severed and being forced to watch his brethren slain, he finally gave in and constructed the design for Gorr’s ultimate weapon; the Godbomb. This bomb would ripple throughout all time and space and kill every god that ever had or would exist, finally liberating the cosmos of divinity. Gorr continued gathering the materials he would need; the heart of an elder god from the primordial void and the Pool of Forevers that allowed the gods of time to travel the timeways. It was at this moment that Thor would finally catch up to Gorr, hoping to end his path of carnage right there. Unfortunately, Gorr would escape several millennia into the future, with the Thor of the present arriving 900 years after Gorr. At the end of time, Thor had become the All-Father, but even the power of the Odinforce (now the Thorforce) was no match for Gorr and his army of Black Berserkers, who laid ruin to Asgard and enslaved its population. The Black Berserkers left Old King Thor to his throne of nobody, forcing him to rot and robbing him of the satisfaction of dying in battle. Gorr had constructed a world at the edge of the cosmos and enslaved every god from every corner of creation, forcing them to build his Godbomb the size of a moon. After 900 years of labor, Gorr had used a piece of the Pool of Forevers to pull the young Thor of the past to his time, wanting him to drive the last nail of the Godbomb into place and seal the fate of every god throughout history. It was around this time that the Thor of the present would arrive upon the desolate Asgard and assist Old King Thor in battling the Black Berserkers, forcing Gorr to call them back to his planet. The Thors of the present and future would ride the cosmic waves towards Gorr’s planet to finally slay the tyrant, while simultaneously the Thor of the past would free himself from slavery and escape Gorr’s planet, meeting up with the other Thors. The three Thors would descend upon Gorr’s planet with the fury of a thousand thunderstorms, giving Gorr the chance to act as a butcher one more time before ridding the cosmos of gods forever. Their battle shattered several worlds, with Gorr strengthening himself by executing most of his enslaved deities and absorbing their godblood into himself. The battle ended with Gorr being thrown into the sun much like the sinners of his planet, except Gorr would not accept the fires of damnation so easily. On that day, any being within that section of the cosmos would witness the sun turn black and the residents of Gorr’s planet would witness him victorious over the three Thors. It was then that a copy of Gorr’s deceased wife Arra would celebrate now that Gorr’s unholy crusade had finally come to an end. Gorr’s mistress was utterly devoted to him, even calling Gorr “her god”, sending him into a blind rage. A copy of Gorr’s deceased son Agar would find the corpse of his mother, slain by the father they were utterly devoted to. Gorr had become what he had taught Agar to hate; a wrathful deity who would strike down any mortal who opposed him. Agar would help Thor of the present gain back Mjolnir, and with the help of his granddaughters from the future, Thor would lead the last stand against Gorr before the Godbomb could detonate. Although he wished to finish the Godbomb with young Thor's heart, Gorr settled for the heart of a separate god and added the last drop of blood needed, bringing the Godbomb to life. The bomb would ripple backward throughout time, killing every god within every second of time. As a black substance emerged from within them, every god in existence would see visions of Thor: the God of Thunder, and every god in existence would pray for Thor’s victory. Using two Mjolnirs, Thor began taking the Godbomb into himself and even absorbing the very source of Gorr’s power. It was then that Thor would reveal what this power really was; All-Black the Necrosword, the slicer of worlds. It was a weapon forged from shadow itself by a primordial god of the abyss, Knull, in order to slay the Celestials that dared to spread light in his sanctuary of nothing. It was a weapon constructed by gods to slay gods. The now empowered Thor, wielding two Mjolnirs, blasted the powerless Gorr with everything he had, utterly defeating him. Without the power to sustain his creations, Gorr watched as his son, who now despised him, melted away into black goo. Left with no more gods to blame for his agony but himself, Gorr let out one last cry of pain as young Thor decapitated him, finally giving him the release he yearned for all those millennia ago. After his death, his body was burned to ash and his planet was thrown into a black hole by Old King Thor, never allowing anyone to wield the Necrosword again. And thus ended the saga of Gorr the Lonely Hypocrite, for now at least.

While saving what remained of Earth from Galactus, Old King Thor was forced to pull All-Black the Necrosword from the black hole it had been thrown into and bond with it. In his clash with Galactus, he would restore life to the desecrated planet and drive the eater of worlds away. Thought to be dead, Galactus would bond with the Necrosword and begin the weapon’s ever-changing journey to find a worthy host. The weapon would pass from Galactus to Ego the Living Planet, and from there would finally fall into the hands of the god of deception; Loki. Now bestowed the power to finally bring his brother’s death to fruition, Loki the All-Butcher would battle Old King Thor and begin razing the cosmos in the process. With Thor finally on his back, Loki found that he could not bring himself to slay his brother, and thus needed another god to bring the story of Thor to an end. Resurrected by the desire of Loki, Gorr would once again emerge from oblivion. Revealing his very being had been merged with All-Black the Necrosword, Gorr rested in a godless abyss after the death of his physical body. Now brought back by Loki’s desire, Gorr realized that his quest to rid the cosmos of deities had been completed for him by the two brothers, now leaving only tired and battered gods for him to slay. In the battle between Gorr and the two brothers of Asgard, the cosmos would shake and entropy would continue to accelerate throughout the dying universe. Realizing that the current mortals born in a world of gods could never desire an empty heaven like him, Gorr vowed to destroy the current universe and all mortals living within it, creating a new one free of the influence of deities. Swallowing the brothers in an expanding sea of black, Gorr would then be attacked by Thor’s three granddaughters and the now awakened Sky Lords of Indigarr. After Gorr’s rampage through the cosmos, the Thor of the present returned to Indigarr with new gods who made the planet a paradise of life and growth. It was thanks to Gorr that this planet prospered in the hands of deities, and this truth angered him deeply. Being once again decapitated, it mattered not as Gorr now had no need for a physical body. Being one with the sea of black expanding throughout the universe, Gorr’s very being would merge with the fabric of existence itself as a final act of wrath against the gods who abandoned him. Battering Thor with the very universe he was hoping to save, the stars in the heavens would shine black with death and annihilation. Asgard was now desecrated and the Earth was drowned in a jet black sea. Despite this, Thor found it alarmingly easy to destroy the universe that now rumbled with hatred for all he was. As the oldest god who ever lived, Thor’s stories would be recounted by Loki in the face of the Necroverse. Every hardship he had faced in his quest to prove himself worthy, every demon he had battled within and without. With the pillars of creation shattering from the thunder unleashed at the end of time, Thor would finally submerge the dark cosmos in a sea of lightning and rid Gorr of the All-Black. With the Necrosword now taking the form of entropy itself, Old King Thor would devote the rest of his existence to holding back the oncoming end to create a future for the mortals he had restored life to. Loki would become the Earth’s star he had destroyed with the All-Black, becoming the very damned that Gorr’s people had feared becoming themselves, only now bringing radiance to the world as opposed to a searing heat. As for Gorr, his memories of strife and despair were removed from him along with the All-Black, now living within an ecosystem of life, a world with gods devoted to nurturing the future. And thus the saga of Gorr the Redeemer and Thor the All-Father had truly come to an end, with their battle spanning from the beginning until the end of time. Their legacy would usher in an oasis of life; a new world of gods and mortals.

Yet somehow, Gorr would still not accept this ending. Suddenly returning to Earth 616 via unknown means to slay Jean Grey, he succeeded in slaying the Phoenix and forced her to tap into the Phoenix Force’s full power. Gorr was turned into a star that would illuminate the cosmos, one that would shine light upon the universe instead of plunging it in darkness. In the present, Gorr fights under Doctor Voodoo’s army of the undead alongside Knull, the King of the Abyss, and Hadad, the first Storm God. Their mission is to slay and recruit more gods for future wars to come.

Zamasu

“...Hahahahahahahaha! You mortals are all alike, led astray by your ignorance. You think that's a revelation? That Goku's body will always be a part of me? Of course he will! Such was my desire. You are mortal, Saiyans... yet you've gained divine power. You're stronger than most deities now, thus those who created this cosmos have made something they cannot control. And if one can't control a world, one can't be called a god of it, making Saiyans the ultimate symbol of the failure of the Kai! So by incorporating Goku's flesh into my being, I have assumed both the sins of mortalkind and the failure of divinity so they may never be repeated! That is the duty of a true god.”

In the world of Dragon Ball, deities are given many different purposes. While some are given the role of destruction, others like the Supreme Kai are given the role of creation and maintaining life. Although the job of both is maintaining balance in the universe, one of these Kai would have a very different idea of what that balance should look like. Originally the North Kai of Universe 10, Zamasu would eventually become an apprentice and planned successor for the Supreme Kai in his universe after displaying immense strength and prowess in combat. Although prejudice against mortals wasn't rare among deities, Zamasu was particularly extreme in his disdain for mortalkind. His master, Gowasu, began to notice Zamasu’s heart wavering and attempted to guide him down the right path. Around this time, the God of Destruction from Universe 7 paid a visit to Gowasu, with Son Goku also tagging along. Coming with the intention of investigating a strange crisis in a future timeline, Goku challenged Zamasu to a quick sparring match in an attempt to feel his energy. Although Zamasu displayed impressive skill, he was no match for the overwhelming power possessed by the saiyan. Although Gowasu hoped this defeat would help humble Zamasu, it only enforced his philosophy on the violent nature of mortals. The final straw was when Gowasu attempted to teach him one final lesson on the value of mortals, taking him to the future of planet Babari to observe their evolution from a savage race. After hundreds of years, what the two would instead find is continued destruction of themselves and the environment. Atop a cliff, Zamasu would then be attacked by a member of this race. Although Gowasu ordered him to back down, Zamasu took it upon himself to strike this creature down in the name of justice. After slaying his first mortal, Zamasu's new philosophy was clear and free of clouded judgement; mortals do not succumb to evil, their mere existence is evil, and any god who stood idly by while these savages sullied the cosmos were just as worthy of his wrath. From here Zamasu would begin scheming. First he would kill his master, taking his status as Supreme Kai. From there he began focusing on the mortal who set him down this path of no return; Son Goku. Learning of the super dragon balls from Universe 6 and 7 through a video of Goku’s fight with Hit, Zamasu would gather them with knowledge gained from threatening Master Zuno and use his wish to exchange his body for Goku’s, this new being later given the name Goku Black. With his newfound strength, he would slaughter Goku and his family. From there he would use his newly acquired time ring to find the reality most worthy for his wrath to begin, which he decided would be Future Trunks’ world. Meeting up with the Zamasu of this future, he and Goku Black became partners and would use the super dragon balls to grant Future Zamasu immortality before destroying them so they may never be used again. They would then begin slaying all the Kai of this reality, also causing the deaths of the Gods of Destruction and sending the angels into a dormant state. It was from this point that the zero mortals project would begin, with their efforts first being focused on Earth.

Holding Black off for over a year, Trunks began gathering up enough fuel for a trip to the main timeline, gathering reinforcements in the battle against Black. Just when they had finally gathered the energy necessary, Black located Trunks and Bulma’s base of operations, obliterating Trunks’ mother before his eyes. Stricken with grief, Trunks vowed to continue surviving for the hope of his world, finally making it to the past. Bringing the main timeline’s Goku and Vegeta to his future, Vegeta would begin engaging in battle with Black, being overwhelmed due to his extreme power growth. With Goku also being caught off guard by Future Zamasu’s abilities, the trio would return to the present to train themselves for the next trip to the future. With confirmation of Zamasu being responsible for Black, Beerus would erase Zamasu in the present, although this wouldn't affect Future Zamasu and Goku Black due to them possessing time rings. With Vegeta’s newfound strength from training in the time chamber, Black grew even further to the point that his power was beyond his own understanding, slicing apart the fabric of spacetime. As for Future Zamasu, Goku planned to use the mafuba and seal him, although that plan would fail. With Future Zamasu becoming demoralized, Goku Black knew it was time to achieve true perfection, fusing with Zamasu and becoming one ultimate being. Zamasu was now the union of mankind’s ugliness and the god’s failures, taking on their sin so their mistakes may never be repeated again. Fused Zamasu’s power was so overwhelming that Goku and Vegeta were forced to fuse into Vegito, the fusion that was the strongest known being in Dragon Ball before the story ventured outside of Universe 7. Vegito, now Vegito Blue, would overpower Zamasu before their fusion was forced apart by their own immense power.

From here, the manga and anime differ too greatly in terms of events to combine them into one cohesive narrative. In the manga, Fused Zamasu had the weakness of a time limit to his fusion due to a non Kai being involved. To combat Zamasu, Goku achieved a perfected version of Super Saiyan Blue that would no longer leak stray energy, being able to match Zamasu and forcing him to fight sloppily out of anger. After the time limit was finally met, Zamasu would reject his unmerging and combine at the cellular level, with only Future Trunks splitting him in half to stop this. It was too late however, as both Black and Zamasu would transform back into separate Fused Zamasus. As they continued to be blasted apart, each section of their body would regenerate into another Fused Zamasu. Soon there would be an uncountable number of them, with Zamasu also having access to a time machine from Universe 12 to continue pursuing the Saiyans in any timeline he wished.

In the anime, Fused Zamasu would be overpowered by Goku using Kaioken x10 and using all the energy he had to break his own arms just to damage him. From here his body would start melting in one half due to being the fusion of a mortal and immortal, becoming disfigured yet continuing to rise in power. His angelic image was falling apart, the true ugliness of his being leaking through. He no longer cared for the sanctity of himself and the cosmos, all that was left of Zamasu was his wrath and all that mattered was the destruction of these Saiyans who would dare besmirch his beauty. As the only one left standing, Trunks would call upon the energy of every remaining mortal on his planet, channeling their hopes and dreams into a spirit bomb transformed into a sword. It wasn't Trunks’ rage or self righteousness that empowered him, it was the hope of the planet he fought tooth and nail to protect. It wasn't constant battle that brought him strength, it was his choice to dedicate his being to saving humanity. Zamasu would not be defeated by the wrathful mortals he thought them to be, it was instead them using their freedom to lift each other up. With this, Trunks would slice Zamasu in two, obliterating his body and finally bringing an end to his reign of terror. However, something was wrong. As a strange smoke began emerging from nothing and consumed the surface of the planet, the skies became an eerie green color, covered in Zamasu’s face. As Gowasu would explain, Zamasu’s twisted idea of justice itself took ethereal form and started infecting the cosmos, becoming one with the timeline itself and eradicating all life on the planet with the exception of the Saiyans and those nearby. Zamasu would also begin bleeding into other timelines, with no being in existence having hope of defeating him. From here, both stories would have the same ending, with an exhausted Goku remembering the button he was given by Zeno, the Omni King, to summon him to his location whenever he wished. Seeing the mess made of reality, the Zeno of the future would erase the timeline with Zamasu still in it, the Saiyans and their allies just narrowly escaping. Zamasu had truly ascended beyond imagination, with the most powerful being in existence being the only one capable of truly bringing an end to his crusade across the cosmos.

Skill & Experience

Gorr

Gorr is exceedingly skilled when it comes to butchering, having several millennia worth of experience slaying gods, including several gods of war. Gorr was noted to be a skilled hunter on his homeworld, using this skill to track a younger Thor for several days before ambushing him. Gorr is also experienced in the ways of torture, capable of making a god of torture give up information in a single afternoon. As for traditional combat, Gorr was able to fight three different Thors from the past, present, and future all at once and came out victorious. After just waking up from death, he was also able to defeat both Loki and Old King Thor once again. Outside of the gods of Asgard, Gorr also swiftly defeated Jean Grey in her base form, forcing her to tap into her full power and defeat him with her stronger abilities. After merging with the universe, he was able to effectively command every remaining celestial body to fight off the remaining gods in the universe.

Zamasu

Zamasu has been alive for hundreds of years, being one of the most adept Kai in combat. Outside of the Kai, Zamasu was able to contend with Goku in martial arts, seemingly losing due to a power difference. Furthermore, despite inhabiting another body weakening you in Dragon Ball due to a lack of experience fighting within it, Zamasu was very quickly able to become proficient in Goku’s body, even rivaling Goku himself in hand to hand combat. This is very impressive, as Goku is possibly the greatest martial artist on Earth, being able to instantly use moves that take 50 years to learn, use a century old fighter’s technique against him after seeing it once, counter time skipping through sheer predictive ability, and embarrass foes a good deal stronger than him through sheer skill. After briefly scuffling with Goku, Black had ingrained his moves into his mind and incorporated Goku’s fighting style into his own. After just a couple days, Black was easily able to master the kamehameha and was able to copy instant transmission instantly after seeing it once.

Equipment

Gorr

All-Black the Necrosword

Gorr’s signature weapon and the source of his power, it is a shadow-like substance that bonded with him and granted him the strength to slay gods. Forged from the abyss itself by Knull, it was designed to slay even Celestials. Although it shares many similarities, it is notably not a traditional symbiote and thus doesn't possess the same major weaknesses like sound or heat. This is shown when Gorr is unaffected by the lightning of three Thors that “echoes through the depths of space” and, in that same fight, is plunged into a star and is unphased. Due to being made from pure shadow, the All-Black is able to take any shape Gorr desires, creating objects like chains, whips, nails for crucifixion, all objects even Thor has trouble breaking with his world-shattering hammer. In his battle against the Phoenix, Gorr mainly forms it into a large hammer. Some of the abilities of All-Black the Necrosword include:


The Pool of Forevers

On the world of Chronux, the gods of time exist to shepherd the herds of yesterdays and prune the wild fields of tomorrows. To travel the timeways, the time gods use a massive pit holding their blood. Although only a few drops of their blood were needed, Gorr elected to fill the pit with all the blood of every time god. Gorr keeps pieces of the Pool of Forevers on him, allowing him and his Black Berserkers to travel through time as they please and send others to whatever point in history they desire. The Pool of Forevers isn't just able to send targets to the past and future, but to other timelines entirely and even the primordial void before time existed at all.

The Godbomb

Built with 900 years of slave labor, it is Gorr’s ultimate weapon and final trump card in his mission to rid the cosmos of divinity. The Godbomb is a massive sphere the size of a moon durable enough to remain unscratched by a bomb thrown by Thor from the past. It was designed by Shadrak, the god of bombs, to rid the cosmos of every god that has existed or ever will exist. Built around the heart of a primordial god, it is infused with the essence of time gods to spread throughout time and kill every god that has existed or ever will exist. After detonating, the bomb will ripple backwards and forwards throughout every moment of history and kill trillions of gods within those moments, causing a black substance to spread from within their body and induce a painful death. Note that the Godbomb likely isn't standard as it required a lot of preparation for Gorr to activate. Due to Gorr getting his planet in the debate and it fitting into this matchup thematically, the Godbomb will be taken into account for the debate.

Zamasu

Potara Earrings

As a Kai, Zamasu is equipped with two Potara Earrings. The purpose of these earrings is to merge two Kai together permanently after both wear them on opposite ears. When a non Kai is involved in the fusion, the limitations of the Potara differ between continuities. In the original Dragon Ball manga and Daima, this fusion is permanent no matter what and Goku and Vegeta were only unfused due to gasses within Majin Buu. In the Dragon Ball Super anime, this fusion will only last an hour if a Kai isn't involved. In the Super manga, the fusion will only last an hour if either participant isn't a Kai (this is contradicted by the elder Supreme Kai fusing with a witch human in the original manga). The fusion can come undone before the hour is up if the combined power levels of both combatants is too much for the Potara to handle, however, a Kai being involved in the fusion will stop this from occurring.

Time Rings

Zamasu and Black both wear time rings, items created with the purpose of allowing Supreme Kai to move forward through time. Zamasu possesses a box with many different time rings, with a new one being created with every new timeline. A time ring can only be used by someone wearing the Potara of a Supreme Kai. A time ring grants the following abilities:

  • Time Travel: A time ring can, obviously, travel through time between the future and the present. While it isn't capable of traveling to the past on its own, it can travel distortions created in space-time, allowing the wearer of a time ring to follow another time traveler to the past, returning to the point in time they came from once that distortion in space-time subsides.
  • Timeline Paradox Prevention: Within Dragon Ball, the way time travel influences events in the future is somewhat different from most other media. When someone travels back to the past and creates a change in events, instead of affecting their future they create a new timeline entirely. There is one exception to this rule however, and that is when a god intervenes with history. As an example, due to Goku Black existing in the future, Beerus decided to bring Goku to Universe 10 and spar with Zamasu to investigate. As a result of this, Zamasu was radicalized and decided to steal Goku’s body, becoming Goku Black in the future. This should be impossible based on how time travel works in Dragon Ball, but due to Beerus’ statement of gods not applying to the timeline rule, he's likely the explanation for this causal loop. As a more direct example, the Hakai technique used by gods of destruction is capable of erasing one from history, also erasing them from every timeline. Despite this, Goku Black and Future Zamasu were unaffected by this due to the time ring preventing changes to the past from affecting their present selves. This means that attacking Zamasu in the past or even every version of him across every timeline won't have an effect on him unless the main version itself is the target.

Time Machine

Outside of the time ring, Zamasu also has possession of a time machine device created in Universe 12. If it functions similarly to Trunks’, this device should be capable of traveling to any point in space-time. It should be noted that in Dragon Ball, traveling back to the past and changing events, no matter how insignificant, will create a new timeline instead of changing events in the present or future.

Abilities

Gorr

Immortality

Due to All-Black, Gorr has lived for billions of years, not resting or hungering once throughout his rampage. On top of his long life span, Gorr is able to regenerate, healing from a wound inflicted by Thor and seemingly growing a severed limb back. Later, it was revealed that Gorr had become one with the All-Black itself, likely due to his codex being stored within the sword. A codex is created from copies of the user being stored within the symbiote hivemind, with codex bodies being described as “walking information”, meaning Gorr’s very information was now one with All-Black the Necrosword. Having his mind resurrected by Loki’s will, Gorr would create a new body from the shadowy substance and was later shown to be unfazed by the decapitation that previously killed him. Even after being separated from All-Black the Necrosword once more, Gorr was able to retain its power and could be sustained from any physical damage with the All-Black acting as his heart.

Flight

Gorr is able to hover and maneuver through the air, battling even the god of thunder in his own domain. Gorr is also able to fly through space, battling three Thors at once.

Enhanced Senses

Was able to smell Thor’s “godflesh” and follow him through a thick fog for several days. Also shares senses with his Black Berserkers, being able to command them from several lightyears away and retain any information they gather.

Pain Inducement

Is able to inflict a burning pain with just a touch. Is also an expert in torture, being able to make a god of torture give up information in just an evening.

Faux Self-Destruction

Was seemingly able to fake his death by faux self-destructing and disappearing from the battle.

Corpse Summoning

Was able to summon the corpses of those damned by the gods, using their bones to taunt Thor.

Telepathy

Was able to communicate with Jean Grey telepathically from planets away and hear her thoughts.

Dimensional Teleportation(?)

After being stranded on the Earth in Old King Thor’s future, he was somehow back in the main 616 universe when he fought The Phoenix.

The Sea of Darkness

After merging his very being with All-Black, Gorr was able to create a sea of darkness that expanded endlessly, swallowing up the stars lining the heavens and eventually the universe over the course of a single battle. This sea was able to contain Loki and Old King Thor until Thor clawed his way out. Even then, Thor was only able to poke his head out of the surface for a bit. After consuming the universe, Gorr will merge with the sea and become…

All-Black the Necroverse

Discarding his physical body, Gorr becomes a shadow consuming the very universe itself, commanding all matter within it to his whim. He controls all the comets, moons, and stars in the universe to do battle with. He's able to command all superclusters and nebulae to his whim. He can even create supermassive black holes to consume foes and destroy them on a molecular level. After destroying Thor and his family, Gorr planned to create a new universe where the very idea of gods never existed. The Necroverse may be even more vast than it seems on the surface, as it's also implied Asgard was consumed by Gorr as well. (See Before the Verdict)

Resistances

  • Extreme Temperatures, Radiation, and Electricity Manipulation: Is able to fly through the vacuum of space without issue. Was also able to survive being plunged into a star and could tank several lightning blasts from Thor’s lightning, including ones from Old King Thor enhanced by the Thorforce. Was also able to tank fire attacks from Jean Grey, with the heat of the Phoenix being hot enough to be felt from galaxies away or melt supernovas.
  • Poison: Is unaffected by possessing the All-Black despite the All-Black killing Thor in just a couple minutes when he was the host of it.
  • Sound Manipulation: Was seemingly unaffected by thunder loud enough to “echo throughout the depths of space”. His Black Berserkers were also seemingly unaffected by the screams of the gods that “spread throughout the cosmos”.
  • Memory Manipulation and possibly Law Manipulation: Was seemingly unaffected by a law of time travel that removes all memories of different timelines after returning to the time one belongs to. After returning from the primordial void with the heart of an elder god, he then traveled several millennia further into the future and still remembered killing the elder god 900 years later. Later when he has his memories erased by Old King Thor, he seemingly returns to fight Jean Grey with his memories intact.
  • Possibly Temporal Explosion Manipulation: Although it only targeted gods, Gorr survived being at the epicenter of his Godbomb and seemingly wasn't affected by it. After Thor absorbed the Godbomb, he hit Gorr with two blasts of thunder which he was able to survive.
  • Black Holes: The All-Black not only survived inside a black hole, it assimilated it

Zamasu

Ki Control

Zamasu is capable of controlling ki, a spiritual internal energy that exists within all living beings. When a fighter exerts their ki, they gain a boost in strength, speed, and durability. As a fighter expends their reserve of ki in battle, it naturally replenishes through rest or eating. Ki control grants a fighter several abilities, with Goku Black and Zamasu knowing the following:

  • Ki Blasts and Shockwave Creation: When a fighter powers up to a certain level, an omnidirectional burst of air will emit from their body. They can also fire out blasts of ki or create omnidirectional shockwaves, with the potency of them depending on the strength of the fighter. Black himself has created explosions swallowing the horizon, while fighters Black would far surpass are capable of destroying entire planets or even solar systems. The strongest feat of destruction Black would scale to in base is when Goku threatened all of Universe 7 with shockwaves in his clash with Beerus, with a macrocosm like Universe 7 containing 2-3 separate spacetimes.
  • Flight: Users of ki are capable of flying and battling others through the air. If the user is capable of surviving in space, they can also fly through it.
  • Ki Sensing: Users of ki are able to sense the presence and battle power of others by detecting their ki. While it depends on the level of ki being sensed, ki users are capable of detecting others and locking onto their locations from entire other dimensions. Highly skilled users of ki are able to suppress their ki to avoid detection, with Black hiding his presence until he arrived at Trunks’ location.
  • Ki Barrier: The ki emanating from a user can repel attacks from opponents, with Black also showcasing the ability to create a more tangible barrier as well. Ki barriers are notably able to protect the user from certain abilities such as Majin Buu’s biological absorption.
  • Kiai: The ability to create concussive blasts of air with just a glance. This allows the user to send opponents flying or clear smoke from the area.
  • Vice Shout: At a certain power level, users of ki are able to create holes in space through screaming, creating a portal that lets them escape from pocket dimensions like the hyperbolic time chamber, a realm separated from the universe spatially and temporally. The power required for this is around the level of Super Buu and SSJ3 Gotenks (a level base Goku Black should scale to). At a higher level than even Fusion Zamasu (though a level he might be able to reach by evolving throughout the battle), Gogeta and Broly in their Super Saiyan forms were able to break into the dimension of swirling lights, a realm (debatably) described as a higher dimension, before then shattering the realm by clashing with their attacks.
  • Instant Transmission: Black is capable of teleporting by putting his fingers up to his forehead and locking onto the ki signature of others. Although using his fingers helps concentrate, it's not necessary when teleporting a short distance. Users of instant transmission are able to teleport across the universe or even to other dimensions with separate flows of time.
  • God Bind: A technique where the user encases their opponent in their ki from a distance, freezing them in place and allowing the user to slam them around.
  • God Slicer: Zamasu’s signature technique where he creates a blade of ki from his hand. Zamasu has great mastery of this technique, being capable of cutting straight through an opponent or stopping just short of their throat to threaten them. Black is also capable of sending out several rods of ki while slicing, these rods then attach themselves to the opponent before detonating.
  • Black Power Ball: One of Black’s techniques where he charges up a ball of ki and throws it at the opponent, causing it to detonate. Zamasu and Black are able to use this move in conjunction with each other, combining them into an even larger energy orb.
  • Black Kamehameha: Black’s own rendition of the iconic move. Charging up a ball of ki in their palms, the user then discharges it in a powerful beam of energy. While its power output depends on the amount of time it’s charged, we've seen that the kamehameha can more than double the attack power of the user based on power level readings from Raditz.
  • Sickle of Sorrow: In the anime, Goku Black was able to harness his rage to create a large scythe of ki. This scythe is capable of cutting through the fabric of space and time, creating a large rift of incomprehensible energy. It's unclear whether this spatial cutting negates durability, but what it can do is create clones of Black from the rift. These clones can block out ki sensing (possibly instant transmission entirely) and continuously regenerate from clouds of smoke, with the rift continuing to create more and more clones.
  • Portals: In the manga, Fused Zamasu is able to create portals which he uses to attack opponents with several punches from multiple directions. He's also used them to pull hostages in front of himself to catch Goku off guard while he was being erased by Hakai.
  • Blades of Judgement: An attack where Zamasu fills the sky with rods of ki and causes them to rain upon the ground, all of them exploding after.
  • Human Extinction Attack: Zamasu can seemingly use Super Buu’s attack that flooded the Earth with ki blasts, killing every member of the human race not powerful enough to dodge the blasts.
  • Lightning of Absolution: Summoning a giant bird-like construct of ki behind him, Zamasu rains down dozens of lightning bolts. This lightning could knock Goku and Vegeta out of their Blue forms despite them taking his normal lightning bolts no problem.

Saiyan Physiology

Using the body of Goku, Zamasu has access to many traits granted to those of the Saiyan race. Saiyans are aliens from a warrior race who are naturally far stronger than the average human. They have a knack for battle, have naturally black and spiky hair, and have a much more sporadic aging process, experiencing a growth spurt in their teen years and remaining in their prime before rapidly aging around 80. The following are some abilities Saiyans have that are relevant to combat (which Goku Black would possess at least):

  • Enhanced Senses: Saiyans have naturally better senses of sight and smell, with Goku as a kid being able to track a rock that was thrown off a cliff into a forest via smell and see Roshi over the horizon.
  • Zenkai Boosts: Saiyans are able to grow at a rapid rate due to their bodies becoming strengthened after recovering from damage, with the amount of growth depending on how close to death they were. Black is able to abuse this due to Future Zamasu possessing the ability to heal allies, allowing Black to continue powering up every time he takes damage and gets healed. After getting healed by Zamasu, Black’s Super Saiyan form went from matching Vegeta’s Super Saiyan form to overpowering his Blue form, which is more than 400x stronger.
  • Rage Boosts: Outside of zenkais, Saiyans are also able to grow mid fight through experiencing immense rage. Black himself was able to weaponize this, channeling his rage into creating the sickle of sorrow which surpassed the newfound strength Vegeta gained from training in the time chamber.
  • Technique Mimicry: Saiyans are extremely adept in combat, being able to easily mimic combat techniques after just seeing them once. Black himself was able to copy Goku’s instant transmission after seeing it once, and was also able to mimic transformations like Super Saiyan Blue.

Kai Powers

Future Zamasu is highly proficient in utilizing magical abilities granted by his status as a Supreme Kai in combat, often utilizing them to keep up with far stronger opponents. This includes:

Immortality

Alongside the main Zamasu's wish to gain Goku’s body, the Zamasu in Future Trunks’ timeline was granted an immortal body by the super dragon balls. This grants him eternal life and the ability to regenerate from any physical wound. Zamasu can easily regenerate from things like having his head blown off, having a hole blown through him, and having half of his body obliterated by Hakai. Zamasu’s regeneration likely upscales from characters like Perfect Cell and Majin Buu, as Goku wasn't confident in killing him and resorted to sealing. This is despite the fact that Goku has techniques capable of killing Cell and Buu by obliterating their bodies beyond the point they can regenerate. Cell has the regeneration of Namekians, a race who can regenerate from any wound as long as their head is intact. Cell takes this a step further, being able to reform his entire body just from a cluster of cells he calls his nucleus. Buu has even more impressive regeneration, being able to reform his body from being reduced to a cloud of smoke. Zamasu’s regeneration may go even further beyond this, as it was implied by Beerus that he had no means of killing people with immortality granted by the super dragon balls. This is very impressive due to Beerus possessing Hakai, a technique that completely erases one from existence. It eradicates both the body and soul, seeing as it has explicitly erased spirits. It can also seemingly erase “nonexistence”, as it was able to warp the world of void, a world lacking any physical space or time. Being more direct, Hakai is capable of completely erasing someone across all time and space, removing them from the history of every timeline. Perhaps most impressively, Hakai was capable of erasing Dr. Mashirito and threatening to kill Arale Norimaki. (See Before the Verdict)

Transformations

As a Dragon Ball character, Zamasu naturally has many different forms he can tap into to boost his strength and speed. These include:

  • Super Saiyan: While only shown in the manga, Goku Black is capable of tapping into the legendary Super Saiyan transformation. Awakened by intense emotion, the Super Saiyan form grants its user a glowing aura and bright yellow hair and a massive boost in strength and speed, the exact numerical value of which being a 50x increase.
  • God Ki Form: While it's debatable whether this counts as a transformation, this anime exclusive form is seemingly Goku Black tapping into his god ki to gain a boost in strength and speed. This form was capable of overpowering Goku in his Super Saiyan form while holding back. It is impossible for those without god ki to sense those who possess it, with only other gods being capable of detecting and measuring its power level. If this form works the same as the Super Saiyan God transformation, it is likely a 10x boost on top of Super Saiyan, or a 500x boost on top of his base power [see before the verdict].
  • Super Saiyan Rosé: Black’s own version of Super Saiyan Blue, it is his most iconic transformation and allows him to use techniques like the sickle of sorrow. This form is achieved when a Super Saiyan God goes Super Saiyan, making this form 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God, or a 25,000x boost on top of his base power.
  • Fused Zamasu (see “Potara Earrings” section in equipment for further details): When Goku Black and Future Zamasu fuse via the Potara, they are a far more efficient fusion due to being a fusion of the same being, becoming capable of manhandling both Goku and Vegeta at the same time while they're in Super Saiyan Blue. This form has two very different weaknesses in the anime and manga, with the anime's being absent in the manga and vice versa. While a soft composite Zamasu would logically not have either weakness, both will be listed here for clarity. In the manga, as mentioned in equipment, Zamasu’s fusion will only last for an hour before they’re forced to separate. In the anime, Zamasu’s immortality was corrupted due to half of him being mortal, with strong enough attacks making his regeneration imperfect. This resulted in half of Zamasu’s body becoming purple and gooey.
  • Corrupted Zamasu: An anime exclusive form where Zamasu causes damage to his right arm with lightning of absolution, making it bulk up upon regeneration. Zamasu can continue to bulk up, becoming even larger and stronger. This form was able to put up a fight against Vegito Blue, a character on par with Beerus.

Infinite Zamasu (Manga)

After their fusion is broken, Goku Black and Future Zamasu will then somehow transform back into two Fused Zamasus. If any part of their body is broken off, it will then reform into yet another Zamasu. If a Zamasu is broken into pieces, every body part will form into its own Zamasu. This process will continue repeating, creating an ever growing army of Fused Zamasus.

Infinite Zamasu (Anime)

After his body was completely annihilated by Trunks’ spirit bomb infused sword, Zamasu’s spirit lived on. Manifesting as a dark cloud that consumed the Earth, Zamasu’s new ethereal form was a manifestation of his ideas of justice into reality. Zamasu in this state would become one with the timeline itself, even branching off into other timelines to eventually become one with them as well. In this state, Zamasu can completely cover everything his form touches in blasts of energy, slaughtering everyone on the planet. Even if you're able to deflect one of these blasts, another will instantly follow.

Resistances

  • Goku's Resistances: Due to possessing Goku’s body, Goku Black and Fused Zamasu should have the same resistances that his body would intrinsically possess. These include:
  • Ki Sensing: Due to him possessing god ki, those who don't also possess god ki cannot sense Zamasu’s power.
  • Timeline Paradoxes: See “Timeline Paradox Prevention” in time ring abilities.
  • Fusionism Negation: As mentioned previously, Zamasu and Black in the manga had merged at the cellular level, rejecting the time limit on Potara fusion. Even after Trunks stopped them from merging back and sliced them into separate beings with his sword, both turned back into separate Fused Zamasus and continued multiplying.

Feats

Gorr

Overall

  • Killed the golden god who crippled Knull.

  • Slayed an uncountable number of gods over thousands of years.

  • Traumatized a young Thor after torturing him for days.

  • Massacred the gods of time.

  • Traveled to the future and wiped out every god in Asgard, also enslaving every remaining god in the cosmos.

  • Battled and defeated three versions of Thor from the past, present, and future simultaneously, with Old King Thor arguably being as strong as Odin.

  • Activated the Godbomb, nearly wiping out every god in the multiverse.

  • After being resurrected, he battled and defeated both Old King Thor and Loki. Although Loki claimed he was stronger with the Necrosword than Gorr, the latter was able to dominate Thor far more easily.

  • Became one with the entire universe, planning to kill the remaining gods and mortals before creating a new universe free of divinity.

  • Battled base Phoenix and killed her, forcing her to tap deeper into the phoenix force.

  • Alongside Knull and Hadad, slayed the God of Light.

Power

Speed

Durability/Endurance

Zamasu

Overall

  • Defeated Kibito in combat in the manga and matched Super Saiyan Goku in the anime.

  • Stole Goku’s body before murdering his wife and son.

  • Massacred the Kai in Trunks’ timeline, thus killing the gods of destruction and putting the angels into stasis.

  • Killed nearly every mortal in Trunks’ timeline as Goku Black.

  • Dominated Goku, Vegeta, and Future Trunks on numerous occasions.

  • After being obliterated, his essence merged with Trunks’ timeline and obliterated the rest of the mortals on Trunks’ planet outside of the main cast.

Power

Speed


Durability

  • Pretty much no weapon on Earth is capable of even scratching Goku Black.

  • Manga Goku Black in base could easily block attacks from SSJ Vegeta.

  • Anime Goku Black was able to no-sell SSB Vegeta’s barrage of attacks in base.

  • Future Zamasu could take punches from an enraged SSB Goku.

  • Zamasu eventually became a living timeline without a physical body, making things like physical durability and endurance largely irrelevant.

Scaling

Gorr

Thors

Gorr was not only capable of defeating Thor, he incapacitated three versions of Thor from the past, present, and future. Safe to say he's more than capable of contending with the God of Thunder no matter what era.

Gods

Gorr has obviously slain numerous of Marvel’s mythological gods over hundreds of years, with All-Black the Necrosword being capable of slaying even the strongest of gods such as Odin. Gorr was also enlisted by Doctor Voodoo alongside Knull and Hadad to slay the god of light, possibly suggesting they all exist in a similar realm of power.

Cosmic Beings

With All-Black the Necrosword slaying beings such as Celestials and Galactus, Gorr should be comparable to various high-tier beings throughout the multiverse.

Zamasu

Saiyans

Both Goku Black in base and Future Zamasu have shown superiority to various god level Saiyans. As for even stronger Saiyans, Zamasu’s fight with Vegito Blue may suggest that he's at least somewhat relative to the weaker forms of Gogeta and Broly that performed certain feats.

Gods of Destruction

Due to Corrupted Zamasu matching Vegito Blue, someone directly compared to Beerus in power, Zamasu should at the very least downscale from several feats performed by the Gods of Destruction.

Weaknesses

Gorr

Gorr doesn't have any direct notable weaknesses, as every time he's seemingly killed or made a non-threat, he finds a way to come back at full strength. For now, Gorr has been permanently put down by Jean Grey after having the All-Black controlled by her and being transmuted into a star. All-Black the Necrosword has also been destroyed by things like hellfire while in Knull’s possession.

Zamasu

Although Fused Zamasu has two separate notable weaknesses in both continuities, a composite would cover both of these. Regardless, both of these are made moot by both respective versions of Infinite Zamasu. Really, the only way to defeat Zamasu at this point was having erasure with enough range to cover Trunks’ timeline and potent enough to nullify Zamasu’s immortality, both of these conditions being met by Zeno. If the battle starts before he becomes Infinite Zamasu, sealing his body to the extent that he can't teleport out of it should end the battle, although he may possibly be able to destroy his own physical form and assimilate it as Infinite Zamasu.

Cosmologies

Marvel Cosmology

Marvel’s cosmology is widely known for its complexity within the vs scene. Due to the fact that this is a solo project, and frankly a good chunk of the cosmology isn't relevant to Gorr, this blog will mainly just cover what's necessary to know for Gorr’s high and low end interpretations of power. For a more comprehensive look at Marvel’s cosmology, check out Vecna vs Dr Doom by Bang’s Blogs.

Earth-616 and The Wider Multiverse

The main Marvel Comics universe, Earth-616 is home to many heroes readers have grown to love. While the exact size of the universe has varied from comic to comic, many state that the universe is infinite with no outer edge. As many readers may also know, Earth-616 is just one of an infinite number of universes created from endless possibilities taken form. Each timeline would possess 3 spatial dimensions and an extra axis of time, while sometimes time travel has been used to access primordial voids outside of time. As for how high the multiverse as a whole can ascend, it has been stated that the multiverse is created through mathematical concepts such as aleph numbers, an infinite series of infinities greater than the last.

Asgard and the Mythical Realms

Beyond all mortal conceptions, the realm of Asgard rests within the heavens. Created through the collective belief of mankind, all gods and mythologies exist in their own realms beyond physical spacetime as stories made manifest. Each realm is contained within the Yggdrasil, with the visible aspect of the world tree in each realm only being the tip of a much larger iceberg.

Utgard

If the gods are creatures of story, then those who cast the story from above must also exist. Home to the archetypal elder gods and Those Who Sit Above in Shadow, Utgard is a higher plane beyond the 10 realms at the end of the Yggdrasil and home to beings that dictate the fate of those below, viewing the gods as mere shadow plays on a cave wall. Those Who Sit Above in Shadow are theorized to be Beyonders, gods who maintain reality from above, with a single embryo Beyonder outmatching the sum of all known reality at the time.

Overspace and Underspace

A common concept within Marvel’s cosmology is infinity extending in both directions. Below and between the information that encompasses reality lies Underspace, with Overspace thus existing above reality. Even above the linearity of the Beyonders, this is the dominion where the true form of the abstract entities lie.

Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be and Can-Be-Shall-Be

The Land of Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be is an abyss outside of reality where things like narrative no longer exist. Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be is the realm of possibility where nothing truly happens, a realm of “what if”. On the other side of possibility, the everywhere to nowhere, the “what could be” to “what if”, is the Land of Can-Be-Shall-Be. Home to the Queen of Nevers, the one who journeys into the endless mystery, Can-Be-Shall-Be is the mountaintop of the abyss where all possibilities are visible, viewing Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be as just another story.

Dragon Ball Cosmology

While not as vast as Marvel’s, Dragon Ball also has many realms to explore that will be relevant for Zamasu’s scaling.

The Universe and Higher Realms

Dragon Ball’s Universe 7 is a vast cosmos home to many worlds, with higher realms existing above. Otherworld is the afterlife home to many of Dragon Ball’s gods, existing outside of the living world’s time and only being accessible via techniques like instant transmission. The World of the Kai's is another realm that exists outside the overall macrocosm where the Supreme Kai views the universe.

The 12 Universes

Universe 7 is just one of 12 universes, with each universe existing in a pair. Above all of these worlds is Zeno’s palace, which is outside the range of instant transmission and only accessible to the Supreme Kai. All of these worlds are surrounded by a vast void known as neutral space.

Timelines

Within Dragon Ball, the act of traveling to the past creates a new branching timeline, with each timeline containing its own version of the previously laid out cosmology including all 12 universes and Zeno’s palace (otherwise, how would Trunks’ future have its own Zamasu or Zeno). Due to the existence of time rings (each representing its own timeline), we know that there are 6 existing timelines.

Before the verdicts…

God Multiplier

While many of Dragon Ball’s multipliers are very well known by this point, you may have noticed that a multiplier was listed for the Super Saiyan God form despite the fact that no official number has been given. This comes from Vegeta’s fight in the Broly movie, in which Vegeta is able to match Broly’s base while in Super Saiyan before powering up to his god form to match Broly’s oozaru form, which is 10x stronger than his base. This indicates that the god form would be at least 10x stronger than Super Saiyan (or 500x base), thus making Super Saiyan Blue 25,000x base (with Kaioken making this 500,000x).

You may be thinking this is far too low due to the Super Saiyan God ritual being a bigger boost than Potara fusion, but this assumes that the god form is as much of a boost as the power that was absorbed into Goku’s base. The most blatant example of fusion being a larger boost than the god forms is when base Gogeta was able to contend with LSSJ Broly better than Blue Goku and Vegeta working together. It's far more likely that the god form that Goku and Vegeta now use is a far less substantial boost than the power Goku gained from the god ritual.

Hypertimelines

A very common topic when debating Dragon Ball cosmology is the idea of “hypertimelines”, or a timeline with a higher dimensional axis than usual timelines. There are multiple avenues to explore with this, two of which will be explored through Infinite Zamasu and one which will actually be explored through Gorr’s own time traveling shenanigans.

Method #1: Higher Time Dimension

As you may have noticed in the first section of Dragon Ball’s cosmology, each macrocosm contains 2-3 spacetimes including the Living World, Otherworld and the World of the Kai's existing outside of both. With this, each macrocosm should be its own 4D structure and the higher dimension of time would be 5D.

As for who scales to this, Infinite Zamasu would be an obvious example due to becoming one with Future Trunks’ timeline. What might not be as obvious is Zamasu’s previous physical form scaling to this level of power. Goku states that if he had a Senzu Bean he'd at least be able to do something, suggesting that Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks’ combined attack being easily deflected was only due to fatigue at that point. With Fused Zamasu being so much stronger than Goku that he needed to break his arms and use a x20 kaioken just to damage him, this would lead to Fused Zamasu also scaling to 5D. Do note that this scaling is debatable due to the weirdness of Goku’s Senzu Bean statement (given the fact that even with a Senzu Bean, he'd still have no way to actually kill Zamasu).

Method #2: Parallelism

Let’s say you have two infinitely wide 2D squares parallel to each other. For these squares to not touch, they'd have to exist within a 3D space. This same principle would logically apply to two infinitely large 3D objects, and in this instance, 2 infinite parallel 4D timelines. For Zamasu to physically move from one timeline into another (since he no longer possessed time travel methods such as a time machine or time rings), he would have to encroach into the 5D space between both timelines, thus making the whole of Infinite Zamasu 5D.

If you wanted, you could combine this method with the previous to make Zamasu and thus Dragon Ball as a whole 6D, but to play it safe the verdict of this blog will treat Infinite Zamasu as a 5D being.

Method #3: Hypertime Travel

If we break a timeline down into an uncountably infinite collection of “snapshots”, with each snapshot containing less than a planck instant of a 3D universe, then a hypertimeline would contain “hyper snapshots” of sorts, with each snapshot containing an entire timeline. With Gorr using the Pool of Forevers to travel to a primordial void before time existed, this proves that his method of time travel extends to an extra axis of time and thus temporal weapons that are powered by the Pool of Forevers like the Godbomb would possess 5D potency.

Dr. Slump Immortality

A topic that's come up somewhat recently in relation to Hakai is how erasing Arale affects its potency. This is due to various feats of Arale and other Dr. Slump characters seemingly coming back from being erased from the plot. Looking into many of these feats, the main issue is that they rely far too much on headcanon. However, there's one feat that may have validity to it;

In chapter 190 of Dr. Slump, there's a scene where Toriyama falls asleep which causes the world to become a white void before Suppaman comes back from having no body to wake Toriyama up and make him continue the story. This would arguably be a feat of Suppaman coming back from the narrative ending. Due to the weirdness of this feat, this section will feature arguments both for and against this scaling.

First though, how would this apply to Arale? Well, it's actually in the Dragon Ball crossover itself where it's established that one’s nature as a gag manga character directly correlates with their ability to manipulate reality. Due to Goku not taking the battle seriously, he's far less embarrassed by Arale than someone like Vegeta. It's also established in Dr. Slump chapter 69 that a character’s survivability correlates to their nature as a gag manga character as well, so Arale scaling above Suppaman in chapter 37 would in turn scale Arale’s survivability above him. Now for the feat itself…

Arguments For

So what the hell is actually going on in this scene that differentiates it from others? As was pointed out earlier, in this scene we see everything reduced to a white void of nothingness before Suppaman tells Toriyama to finish the manga, which should imply that the story itself didn't exist in that moment. As for why this is a feat of regeneration and not just Suppaman resisting existence erasure, we can very clearly see his speech bubble while his body is absent. This isn't just due to him being off-panel previously, as there's a distinct speech bubble for each time he's speaking from off panel that isn't present here.

But do Dr Slump and Dragon Ball even exist within the same universe? Events like Kid Buu and Zamasu ravaging the planet can happen without these characters showing up. Well, it's important to note that Dr Slump is inherently illogical and Dragon Ball moving on from being a gag manga means that these characters showing up wouldn't serve the action story taking place. The DBS crossover also references both the original Dragon Ball crossover (which has direct impact on the General Blue arc’s narrative) and events within the original Dr Slump manga, so the intention is very clear for these two series to exist within the same universe. Besides, the Kid Buu logic can be applied to other series as well. In the very Thor series we’re discussing in this blog, it ends with only the new humans on Earth being the last living beings in the universe along with Thor eternally holding back the end of said timeline. This would contradict characters like Hulk, Venom, and Franklin Richards outliving the end of the cosmos. It would be illogical to say these series just don't exist within the same continuity just because of these inconsistencies..

With all of this being said, Beerus having the capability of erasing Arale would imply that Hakai can erase beyond a narrative level and thus upscale Zamasu’s immortality.

Argument Against

Reading the above section, it should be obvious what the argument here is. There's simply too many “if” factors here. This feat is only valid if you assume this was an instance of the narrative being erased, if you assume the intention was Suppaman coming back from this, if you assume Arale should scale to this, if you assume this is consistent enough for Hakai to upscaling from this to make logical sense, and if you assume Beerus would've even erased Arale in the first place. I mean, if we go with the whole “Dr Slump runs on gag logic” thing, couldn't we also assume Beerus not erasing Arale is a direct result of the plot stepping in to prevent her from dying, indicating that Beerus’ erasure doesn't function on a narrative level? (To be fair on that last point, the premise for this upscale chain is that characters “tank” or regenerate from these near deaths, so it's not necessarily under the same logic). You have to be WAY more generous with this than other feats involving different authors. For example, if a Wonder Woman comic very blatantly states that a random dream dimension exists outside of space and time and we see Zatanna destroy said dream dimension 20 years later in a Justice League Dark comic, that forms a very direct causal chain that leads to the simple conclusion of “Zatanna can affect things that exist independent of space and time”. This is obviously not just as simple, so saying something like “well if Marvel and DC do it” isn't inherent proof for this.

Overall, this is a very simple case of the feat not being definitive enough for it to be applied in good faith. If you want my personal take on the validity of this feat, I personally don't feel comfortable arguing it definitively unless you were to, just as a random example, put Beerus against a character with similar arguments to Dr Slump characters.

As for how these arguments will apply to the verdict, while it will be touched on for those curious, this immortality feat won't be treated as the end-all-be-all for whoever wins.

All-Black the Necroverse and Asgard

While not nearly as complicated as Zamasu’s high ends, this is another factor that should be touched on. When Old King Thor destroyed All-Black, this not only led to the destruction of the mortal universe but Asgard as well, suggesting that All-Black the Necroverse also encompassed Asgard. This can't just be a byproduct of Old King Thor’s blast destroying realms not in the Necroverse either, as you'd have to assume that Asgard was the only one destroyed while every other realm below it in the multiverse was unaffected. With that being said, the exact language here doesn't make it that simple. The implication that Gorr assimilated Asgard comes from a couple text bubbles stating “little was spared of the universe after King Thor’s obliteration of the necro-infection” and “there was no more Asgard”. This is a very simple correlation to make, that Asgard’s destruction was due to Thor’s obliteration of All-Black and thus All-Black infected Asgard. However, this isn't 100% direct phrasing and one could make the argument that Asgard being gone is less from it being physically destroyed and more symbolic due to the gods now living amongst humanity. This combined with the fact that we never explicitly see Gorr infect Asgard onscreen puts enough doubt on this feat that it will be treated like Zamasu’s immortality and not be treated as the main determining factor for a winner (do keep in mind that this high end is more reasonable than Zamasu’s high end however).

Verdict




When breaking down this matchup, 3 categories come to the forefront. Their Stats, Abilities, and How Gorr’s Godslaying stacks up to Zamasu’s immortality. Let's start with stats.

Stats

To start with more miscellaneous stats such as skill and stamina, while Gorr has been doing what he does for far longer, this doesn't inherently mean he'd beat Zamasu in intelligence or cqc. The fact that Gorr has been defeated by a far younger Thor and Zamasu has been defeated by a far younger Goku is proof that raw age isn't the end-all-be-all in terms of skill. In terms of direct showings, while Gorr is highly skilled in terms of things like tracking and torture, Zamasu has shown far better feats of martial arts and analyzing abilities on the fly, such as when he instantly understood and copied instant transmission in the middle of combat. As for who has better skill scaling overall, while Thor is by no means a meathead like he's sometimes portrayed, he relies far more on raw power in his fights than people like Goku and Vegeta. For overall intelligence, while the Godbomb plan took far more years of planning, 99% of this was just the 900 years of slave labor. The zero mortals plan required just as many details but was done far more efficiently and required more deception on Zamasu’s part. Skill and intelligence go to Zamasu. As for stamina, this point is largely moot due to both possessing immortality and ethereal states.

Now onto speed, Zamasu would scale to Goku and Beerus’ shockwaves traveling across Universe 7 at 489 Quadrillion times the speed of light. This number can become far higher when you add multipliers, although it will always pale in comparison to Ares fighting Nate Grey who was reacting in Planck time, which requires reaction speeds 20 Duodecillion times faster than light. While this seems like a clear cut edge for Gorr, speed is largely irrelevant for both. Zamasu as a living cosmos physically breached into other timelines, which would require immeasurable speeds. This would be speed Zamasu is capable of accessing even in his fused state, as the Saiyans were able to react to his energy blasts while he was a living timeline, suggesting that Zamasu’s speed remains largely the same between his physical and ethereal states. Similarly, Gorr can obviously keep up with Thor whose hammer transcends the boundaries of space and time through sheer speed, also requiring Immeasurable speeds. Speed is a tie.

As for strength, there's plenty of different avenues to approach this from. Going off of direct feats of power, Zamasu’s best feat would be destroying the super dragon balls as Goku Black, with just one of them being several times larger than Earth. Gorr on the other hand was able to spread All-Black throughout a star and assimilate it, with All-Black later doing the same with a black hole large enough to consume a planet. This obviously isn't the maximum limit of their power however, as both have obviously fought numerous gods and mortals with impressive feats. Goku in his fight with Beerus threatened to destroy all of Universe 7, including Otherworld and the World of the Kai’s. This would be a feat of threatening 2-3 spacetimes, and with amps from his various transformations he would have enough power to destroy 1,500,000 spacetimes. Goku Black in base has also been capable of overpowering Vegeta in Super Saiyan Blue, meaning if you wanted to stack multipliers you could get an absurd number.

(If you were to be generous, you could scale Zamasu to the weaker forms of Broly and Gogeta that broke into the dimension of strange swirling lights, with said dimension having statements suggesting it’s higher dimensional. However, not only is this line of scaling somewhat interpretation heavy, the superdimensional statements may be too vague to comfortably use in comparison to many of Marvel’s feats such as Thor affecting the Yggdrasil which regardless gets inconceivable higher).

However, no matter how many multipliers you stack, all of this pales in comparison to Gorr fighting versions of Thor comparable to Odin, who threatened infinite realities in his clash with Seth. In terms of direct feats of destruction, Gorr is far beyond Zamasu. This is without going into higher feats from Odin such as warping Master Order and Lord Chaos, abstract entities who exist in Overspace. Overspace is a realm that operates on a higher framework of existence than all realms below such as Utgard, which is a realm with qualitative superiority in its own right. This is without even mentioning versions of Thor slaying an amplified Galactus who was capable of consuming the Apex of All Realities, which exists on an even higher framework than anything listed before

(Scaling Gorr to Herald of Thunder Thor and full power Galactus has similar issues to scaling Zamasu to Super Saiyan Gogeta and Broly. Although the Necrosword scales to a future version of Galactus, that version was far more drained than the version amplified to fight The Black Winter and the one fused with The Destroyer).

No matter where in Outerversal you decide to place Gorr, it will always be inconceivably higher than where Zamasu can reasonably be measured.

With all of that being said, a pure physical battle is only the tip of the iceberg for a debate like this. Both combatants have been able to leave their physical bodies behind and become one with their very cosmos, so which state is more impressive? To start with Infinite Zamasu, a timeline in Dragon Ball encompasses all 12 universes and the void surrounding them, with just one of these universes containing multiple spacetimes. This would suggest that the timeline Zamasu assimilated with exists in a higher time dimension than several 4D spaces, thus making Infinite Zamasu 5D. As for All-Black the Necroverse, Gorr spread his body throughout the universe of Earth-14412, which would actually be far less than what Zamasu encompasses due to this just being the physical space of that cosmos and not any higher domains such as time. However, you could make the argument that the Necroverse also encompassed higher realms like Asgard. As for how vast Asgard is, it exists beyond all mortal conceptions of time and space within the inner planes of Marvel’s cosmology, with its existence above the physical multiverse. As for the multiverse, it has similar higher time dimension arguments to Dragon Ball, meaning it's at least 5D. Doctor Strange has also stated that all mathematical concepts contribute to the existence of the multiverse, including aleph numbers that describe an infinite series of infinite numbers greater than the last. Although Infinite Zamasu is ever-expanding, the physical Marvel multiverse possesses infinite dimensions and Asgard exists beyond that, meaning no matter how much higher Zamasu climbs, he'll never be able to fully encompass the endless sea that is Gorr. With that being said, it should still be noted that the Necroverse encompassing Asgard isn't a super definitive argument and you could still go with the interpretation of Zamasu’s cosmic state being more vast. Regardless, Gorr’s physical strength would still scale far higher than Zamasu’s existence in terms of pure attack potency. Stats go to Gorr the God Butcher!

Abilities

Although he can't measure up to Gorr in raw power, Zamasu is far more than a pure physical fighter. To start, each of Zamasu’s notable abilities will be listed along with how they would affect Gorr:

Space Cutting: With the sickle of sorrow, Goku Black has shown the ability to cut through the fabric of space and time and summon clones that interfere with ki sensing. While it's debatable whether this can be used as a physical attack to negate durability, it wouldn't matter due to Gorr surviving attacks from the likes of Thor who also has also shown to shatter space. As for interfering with ki sensing, this ability could actually be useful due to the fact that it could cut off Gorr’s ability to communicate with his Black Berserkers. However, this is ignoring the fact that Gorr can communicate with his summons from different timelines entirely. However, this is ignoring the fact that ki sensing can also sense signatures while they're in different spacetimes, meaning that this ability should still work. However, this is ignoring the fact that Gorr could just… physically bust his way out of the crowd of Goku Black clones due to being far stronger than all of them combined. Gorr would also likely be able to assimilate the rift in space time with All-Black the Necrosword due to it assimilating things like black holes, making this point largely moot.

Dimensional Travel: Zamasu has multiple techniques that allow him to teleport to various dimensions such as instant transmission and Kai Kai. With this, would Zamasu be able to teleport Gorr to another dimension and leave him stranded? It's complicated. While Gorr has returned to Earth-616 after being stranded in Old King Thor’s timeline, this was via unknown means after an unknown amount of time, meaning it may not be combat applicable. However, there's two problems with this argument; 1. There was basically nothing left of the universe at this point besides the technology-less Earth and the sun, meaning that Gorr’s return couldn't have been via outside means. 2. If Gorr returned to the present from the future, then it wouldn't really matter how much time it takes since virtually no time will have passed in whatever universe this battle takes place in anyway. Even if this argument still feels like a leap due to many unknown factors, Gorr would still be capable of returning with the Pool of Forevers due to keeping pieces of it on him, allowing him to instantly travel to whatever point in space time he wants even if it's from a void before time existed at all.

Power Boosts: Outside of his transformations, Zamasu has various ways to grow in the midst of battle such as Zenkai boosts and rage amps. As established in the stats section, Gorr’s power is on an infinitely higher scale than Zamasu’s, meaning that he has no way to bridge that gap. There's also the fact that Gorr will similarly grow in power throughout the battle the more he sheds Zamasu’s blood, widening the gap even further.

Object Materialization and Teleportation: But if Gorr’s power comes from a weapon and Zamasu can create any object he desires, couldn't he make his own copy of Gorr’s weapon? Ignoring the fact that Zamasu has never shown the ability to use this power in this way (why would he have to gather the Super Dragon Balls or use the existing time rings instead of making his own?), All-Black the Necrosword is constructed from darkness itself, meaning that Zamasu would have to create an object made of… nothing. Safe to say this scenario isn't happening under any circumstances. But what if he teleported the Necrosword out of Gorr like he did with Goku’s Senzu Beans? The very obvious counter to this is that there's a difference between an item being held in someone’s clothing and an item being merged with someone on a fundamental level. This is also ignoring the fact that Gorr’s very information is now one with the sword. So no, Zamasu won't just be able to yoink the sword out of Gorr’s body due to the fact that his body is just the sword at this point.

Paralysis: Now for a more underrated ability. Future Zamasu has the ability to paralyze opponents regardless of gaps in strength as seen when he froze SSB Goku in place and slammed him around via telekinesis. While not the end of the world for Gorr, this point is still a technical win for Zamasu and gives him a solid battlefield control option. However, this ability will become moot when both leave their physical bodies behind, but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

With all of this being laid out, let's move on to Gorr’s major options against Zamasu:

Poison: While Gorr’s poison has instantly bypassed the resistance of the likes of Thor, Saiyans have shown a far more potent resistance to toxins due to being immune to the extinction bomb. While it's very likely Thor also has a resistance feat on this level within his 60+ years of history, none of this would matter as Zamasu can very easily just self destruct and reform his body with the poison removed.

Assimilation: Ignoring the fact that Gorr has never shown to assimilate organic life like Knull has, Zamasu can very easily just form a barrier to protect himself from this like Vegito did against Buu’s absorption.

Power Nullification: While fighting on Gorr’s black world, Zamasu would have his godly abilities heavily dampened. This wouldn't apply to things like immortality granted by the Super Dragon Balls, as that exists independent of his godhood. With that being said, Zamasu should very easily be able to resist this due to Goku resisting Beerus neutralizing his ki within his own body. If you wanted to apply this to something like fusion, then that would end the same way attempting to undo Zamasu’s fusion in the manga went.

Time Travel: Using pieces of the Pool of Forevers, Gorr has the ability to send Zamasu to any point in time he desires, including to primordial voids before time existed. Zamasu’s easy counter to this is the time ring, which would either allow him to just travel back to the present from the past or from the future by following the rift in time like he did with Trunks’ time machine. Escaping the primordial void won't be an issue either, as Dragon Ball’s timelines also contain voids outside the main universe’s spacetime such as neutral space and the world of void. Even techniques such as Kai Kai can reach Zeno’s palace which exists within said neutral space.

The Black Sea: Like he did against Thor and Loki, Gorr can spread the All-Black and trap Zamasu in a sea of darkness that not even Thor could escape from initially. The obvious answer here is just to use Kai Kai and teleport out, there'd be nothing stopping Zamasu from sensing Gorr’s energy above the sea.

Army: Gorr’s army of Black Berserkers may be an issue for Zamasu as they were able to overwhelm versions of Thor. Due to also taking hits from Mjolnir, it would also be difficult for Zamasu to dispatch even one. The most direct counter to this would be Zamasu’s own army of… himself. The manga version of Infinite Zamasu would allow him to create an ever expanding army of his own clones whenever any part of his body is separated. With both Gorr and Zamasu creating ever expanding armies incapable of being killed by the other, this category would cancel out.

The Godbomb: Now for Gorr’s ultimate trump card. The Godbomb is a moon sized explosive that ripples throughout all of spacetime and kills every god in creation. While its size alone wouldn't prevent Zamasu from destroying the bomb, the weapon received no scratches from a younger Thor that later fought with Gorr, removing the possibility of Zamasu destroying the bomb. Due to utilizing the Pool of Forevers, this bomb would have 5D potency. However, Zamasu is very well equipped to deal with an attack like this, as he's survived a similar attack before. Hakai is a technique utilized by Beerus to erase a target across every timeline, making this technique also 5D in potency due to the vastness of Dragon Ball’s timelines. With the time ring, Goku Black was able to resist being erased by this technique due to it preventing any time paradoxes from affecting him, meaning it's very likely work the same for Zamasu if Gorr tries to kill him throughout history with the Godbomb. However, this weapon very likely has much higher reach due to affecting godly realms such as Asgard and Omnipotence City, which we've established exist far beyond what Hakai would affect. While it's debatable whether this means the Godbomb would override the time ring due to “more potency”, the time ring would only be needed for someone like Goku Black and not Fused Zamasu. This is due to his immortality granted by the super dragon balls, which even Beerus himself admitted prevents him from killing Zamasu permanently.

Which now brings us to the most major aspect of this debate that you may have noticed has been danced around a bit. With all of their options for incapacitation rendered null, the only way to determine the outcome of this is to compare the immortality of both combatants and determine whose direct means of putting the other down would bypass it. For now, abilities are a draw!

 Immortality vs Negation

Now for the final category that will determine the winner of this match. Even if Gorr is far stronger physically, that point will be moot if he has no way to actually put Zamasu down for good. But first, let's start with the question of whether or not Zamasu can bypass Gorr’s immortality.

After becoming one with All-Black the Necrosword, any damage to Gorr’s physical body is rendered null as long as the shadowy substance remains. When Gorr’s physical body is discarded, All-Black will assimilate the universe itself and Gorr’s very being will become one with it, allowing him to weaponize any inorganic substance in the universe. The only way to defeat Gorr at this point is to destroy All-Black the Necrosword or unfuse his information from it. Even if Zamasu possessed techniques like forced spirit fission, that ability has never been shown to work on two things as fundamentally fused as Gorr and All-Black. So with that, Zamasu’s only option would be to destroy Gorr with ki blasts beyond the point All-Black has shown to regenerate. While giant ki attacks have been able to bypass the regeneration of beings like Perfect Cell and Majin Buu, that requires the user to actually be on par with their opponent physically, which we've established isn't the case for Zamasu and Gorr. With Gorr’s basically endless stamina, this leaves Zamasu without any option of putting Gorr’s physical body down. As for All-Black the Necroverse, if it were just a matter of destroying a single universe then Zamasu would have no problem ending this fight, it's even been shown that physically Thor found it far easier to destroy the universe itself than kill Gorr. However, with the argument of All-Black the Necroverse extending to Asgard, Zamasu would have no way of affecting the entirety of Gorr. Even without that argument, if Zamasu did destroy the universe we've seen Gorr’s body still remains after the universe is gone. Zamasu also likely wouldn't have the means to destroy All-Black or separate Gorr from it like Thor did, but even then Gorr regained the power after Thor did this regardless, so no matter what we would just come back to Zamasu simply not being strong enough to kill Gorr’s physical body. With this, the answer to the question of Zamasu being able to physically put Gorr down is no.

With Zamasu having no way of winning at this point, his best hope would be for a stalemate due to Gorr also having no win condition, so is that the case? Zamasu’s immortality was granted by the Super Dragon Balls, putting his regeneration far above anyone in the series. As established earlier, this even allows him to regenerate from Beerus’ Hakai which erases its victim across all of spacetime. When Zamasu’s physical body is discarded, he will take on an ethereal state made from his ideas of justice made manifest and merge with the timeline. He will continuously spread, infecting other timelines as well. The only way to defeat Zamasu at this point is to erase the entire timeline on a more fundamental level than Hakai. To start with what would happen if both went into their ethereal states, it's heavily up to interpretation. Whether one would “override” the other or not is impossible to determine. If you go with the Asgard high end, they would both likely be the cosmos at this point due to Zamasu not having a way to infect all of Gorr and Gorr not having a way to affect Zamasu on a more fundamental level than what he can come back from due to no longer possessing the Necrosword. If the battle starts in their “strongest forms”, the battle would be a stalemate, so the only way to determine a winner is to look at Gorr’s physical body and the immortality negation of All-Black the Necrosword. The Necrosword has killed abstract beings such as Celestials and Galactus, with Celestials predating concepts like death and time and Galactus existing outside of the duality of The Inbetweener that encompasses all concepts within duality such as life & death and order & chaos. With this, Zamasu being a living idea and regenerating from timeline erasure wouldn't matter, right? Well, there's one more argument for Hakai, that being having the capability to erase Arale. Arale (and other members of Dr. Slump’s cast) arguably have the ability to come back from the entire narrative ceasing to exist. This is a level of regeneration no one affected by the Necrosword has displayed. While gods in Marvel have been able to exist within the Land of Couldn't-Be-Shouldn't-Be where there are no stories or resist being erased by the House of Ideas’ narrative erasure, it's important to note that these are feats of resistance and not regeneration. Loki and Hercules didn't need to reform their body from nothingness after there was no narrative like Suppaman, they just resisted having their stories erased in the first place, thus making these feats irrelevant to the discussion of immortality. And even if you used these to say All-Black the Necrosword killing gods is equal to Hakai killing Arale, that just means the Necrosword is only equal to what Zamasu can regenerate from in the first place. Now, it is worth noting that giving Zamasu this regeneration is being very generous, but if you do grant said generosity then this battle is a stalema- HOLD IT!

There's one important aspect of the Necrosword’s immortality negation I've failed to mention, and that's how it kills these cosmic entities in the first place. When the Necrosword slays a Celestial, it shatters its soul and traps said soul within its body. Why is this important? If Zamasu’s essence is left within his own body, then it wouldn't be able to escape in the first place and become Infinite Zamasu, thus keeping him in a “dead” state. This would be a huge issue for Zamasu, as all Gorr has to do is decapitate Zamasu or just slice him in half with his superior strength advantage. Even if Zamasu was in his Infinite state, we've already established that Celestials are far more abstract than Zamasu, meaning Gorr would have no issue interacting with him. Whether you grant Zamasu Dr Slump immortality or not, Gorr would very easily negate his immortality regardless. Meanwhile, Zamasu has no way of putting Gorr down whether you're generous or not. With Gorr having this very convenient and direct counter, and Zamasu having no means of putting Gorr down, the winner of this clash between godhood and godslaying is Gorr the-  HOLD IT!

Ok, last time I swear. There's one more very minor detail regarding Gorr’s immortality negation that actually completely shifts the outcome of this battle. Alongside sealing the victim’s shattered soul within their own body, it also links their essence with All-Black the Necrosword to act as fuel. Why is this important? Because as we've spent this entire verdict establishing, Zamasu’s essence is very infectious and will continue spreading until he has become one with everything in its path. As you can imagine this would be very bad for Gorr, and would actually give Zamasu a way to win this fight for good by taking over Gorr from the inside. But first, there is a potential issue with this argument; All-Black the Necrosword isn't constructed from physical spacetime, but instead from the primordial void before the universe’s creation. This isn't an issue for Zamasu, as the timelines he infects also contain voids outside of Universe 7’s spacetime such as neutral space and the world of void. Zamasu also must breach into the void between two timelines to infect other timelines in the first place, so taking control of All-Black the Necrosword wouldn't be an issue at all. With this being said, what does this allow Zamasu to do? Well for one, he wouldn't be able to do something like eject Gorr from the sword at this point due to his information being merged with it, so instead he'd just have to put Gorr back in the dormant state that Loki took him out of in the first place. Gorr may not even fight this, as he described eternal darkness without divinity as his paradise. On the other hand, Gorr is just as capable of ejecting Zamasu’s essence from the Necrosword like he did with Loki when he was woken up, although this just brings us back to square one. Now the dynamic has flipped entirely, with the battle either ending in a stalemate or Zamasu winning. To determine which outcome is more likely, it'll depend on the mentality of both combatants, but for now the clash between godhood and godslaying goes to Zamasu!

Willpower

So what exactly is this final category? Ultimately, this battle will come down to which character will win the mental battle from within All-Black the Necrosword. This is a battle between Zamasu’s ideas of justice vs Gorr’s information. To start with their willpower overall, Gorr was able to crawl through a desert for hours after not having eaten for days and being pelted with rocks. On the other hand, Zamasu lived a relatively privileged life looking down on mortals and took shortcuts to achieve his power. However, what the All-Black would value in this instance isn't physical endurance, it's their will and ambition to achieve their goals. Gorr’s hatred for the gods was enough to make All-Black instantly leave Knull’s body and bond with him, and mentally Gorr endured staying awake for thousands of years just to achieve his goal of slaying every god in the cosmos. Even after having his mind wiped, Gorr still managed to somehow return to 616 with his powers just to fight Jean Grey because she “technically” counted as a god. As for Zamasu, his hatred for mortals as Goku Black was enough to overpower Goku’s rage after learning Zamasu had killed Chi Chi and Goten. And for another example that's actually very relevant to this power interaction, Goku Black and Future Zamasu’s combined will stopped themselves from becoming unmerged after their fusion time limit ran out. With all this being said, while it's hard to quantify who has “more rage”, the examples of Zamasu’s overwhelming rage are far more relevant to this power interaction, with his rage directly overpowering the rage of others and his will stopping himself from becoming unmerged. It's far more likely Zamasu simply won't allow himself to become unmerged with All-Black, especially since Gorr has lost similar battles of will. Even with Gorr's words echoing through his mind, Thor managed to absorb the Godbomb and proceeded to steal All-Black from Gorr due to it favoring his tenacity more. As another example of All-Black being manipulated against him from within, Jean Grey was able to manipulate it against Gorr to restrain him before turning him into a star. Now to be fair, that IS Jean Grey with the full power of the Phoenix Force the embodiment of all life and energy in the cosmos, but it does still set a precedent. In the end, Zamasu is far less likely to be ejected from All-Black than Gorr is to be put back in his dormant state. With this battle coming down to their will to slay all who would besmirch creation with their ugliness, the one with the stronger mentality is Zamasu!


Summary

Gorr

“Two omnipotent brothers squabbling with each other while all of existence withers around them. This is exactly why I've always despised your kind. This... is why all Gods must die!”

Advantages:

  • Infinitely stronger no matter what ends are used.

  • More experienced when it comes to butchering.

  • Zamasu has no way to put Gorr down due to the gap in power combined with regeneration.

  • Can interact with Infinite Zamasu with All-Black the Necrosword due to interacting with beings that exist on a more fundamental scale.

  • His immortality negation method is a direct counter to Zamasu’s regeneration method…

Equal:

  • Immeasurable in speed.

  • Can produce an endless army that the other will never be able to get rid of without cutting it off at the source.

  • If both become their cosmic states, the battle will either end in a stalemate due to neither having a way to put the other down…

Disadvantages:

  • Zamasu can resist his poison and power nullification.

  • Zamasu can come back from any attempts to physically restrain him or trap him in another dimension.

  • …but it also gives Zamasu a direct way to incapacitate Gorr, forcing Gorr to either eject Zamasu and have no way to put him down or lose the battle.

  • …or Gorr will be forced back into his physical body and the interaction between Infinite Zamasu and the Necrosword will take place.

  • If Zamasu becomes one with All-Black the Necrosword, he'd likely be able to control it against him like Thor and Jean Grey have done in the past.

Zamasu

“How DARE you! Human power has failed before, as it will again! Know. Your. Place… and DIE!!! Hahaha… the purification of the world is but another of a god’s duties.”

Advantages:

  • Gorr ultimately has no way to put Zamasu down that won't backfire on him.

  • Has greater showings of intelligence and cqc.

  • Zamasu’s paralysis technique will work on Gorr…

  • Zamasu’s time ring will protect him from the Godbomb, and if you believe it won't, his immortality would render it ineffective regardless.

  • If you go with lower interpretations for the Necroverse, then Zamasu destroying the physical universe is very easy…

Equal:

  • Immeasurable in speed.

  • Can produce an endless army that the other will never be able to get rid of without cutting it off at the source.

Disadvantages:

  • Infinitely weaker no matter how much he grows in power.

  • Has no way to bypass Gorr’s regeneration due to the gap in power.

  • Has no way to separate Gorr from All-Black.

  • Gorr can come back from any attempt to trap him in another dimension.

  • …but if Gorr becomes the universe then this point will be moot.

  • …but if you go with higher ends, the battle becomes a stalemate the second Gorr goes into this state.

Overall, while many will have expected the exact opposite result due to how much crazier Marvel can get in comparison to Dragon Ball, this is the only result that makes sense after hours of thinking over the interaction between abilities. When taking a closer look at both character's showings, you begin to realize that each advantage the other has slowly stops mattering as Gorr begins losing ways to put Zamasu down for good.

While Zamasu’s wincons initially seem like they rely on absurd arguments, the result remains unchanged whether or not you buy high ends like hypertimelines or Dr Slump immortality. In fact, it's Gorr who has to force a stalemate through high end arguments, because without them the end result will always be Gorr killing Zamasu with the Necrosword before Zamasu takes control of it. In the end, it was Gorr’s own avarice for all life in the cosmos that became his undoing, giving Zamasu a direct backdoor to exploit Gorr’s greatest weakness. In the ultimate clash of the two most opposing ideologies in all creation, the one with the greater hatred was Zamasu, Butcher of All Life!

The Winner is Fused Zamasu!


Even though I expect this result to be controversial, I hope you had as much fun exploring this matchup as I did. Although this matchup was a bit ambitious to do as a solo project, I still had a lot of fun going through the research process for both characters. If it wasn't obvious, I went into this matchup far more well versed in Dragon Ball’s scaling than Marvel Comics, but as someone whose favorite Marvel hero has been Thor for years, I was more than happy to dive into this aspect of his mythos. Going into this matchup, I honestly either expected it to end in a stalemate or Gorr’s victory, only to slowly come to the conclusion that Zamasu winning actually makes the most sense when you really dive deep into the mechanics of their abilities and who they are as characters. Some topics argued in this blog are things I expect to come under heavy scrutiny, but even without those high end interpretations I still believe the way in which Zamasu won ultimately makes the most sense. As someone who's only recently gotten really into comic scaling, characters from the big 2 have sorta been held up on a pedestal for a while. “They're from DC, so they definitely have some bullshit”. However, I've noticed that there has been a lot of pushback dismantling this “invincible” status, with Spawn and Simon beating their respective big 2 opponents no doubt playing a huge part in this shift. While I think it's great that more eyes are properly being put on these series, I hope it doesn't become a trend to overcorrect and apply an unfair amount of scrutiny to these properties that otherwise wouldn't be applied to other series. I hope the ultimate takeaway from this blog doesn't become something like “X argument has been taken out back and shot” and is more centered around how interesting the power interaction is. I feel like vs in general has somewhat been treated like an exact science nowadays when ultimately this is all very subjective and dependent on one’s personal standards. With that being said, even though I put in an effort to explore this matchup from multiple angles I'm glad a conclusion can be reached regardless of what end is used, nobody likes a fence-sitter who's too stubborn lol.

I've definitely walked out of this project with a greater appreciation for both characters and the matchup as a whole, this may be my new most wanted episode for Death Battle. And if you still disagree with the result, that's more than ok. Seeing more discussion around this matchup is the ultimate goal of this blog, and I would be overjoyed if even one person walked away from this with further appreciation for either character. I hope to explore more series soon, both ones I already love and ones I've yet to experience, and if you're still reading this far, thank you!

By the way, you may have noticed that extra-canonical media like Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse weren't mentioned in the “Before we Begin” section for media that would be excluded for Zamasu. While Heroes obviously wasn't included for Zamasu in the blog itself, if you're curious what it would've added… 

Next Time…

Update

Hey Triple here, if you weren't aware, even though it's my blog, this project was done entirely by John. He did a great job with it, especially for basically his first blog. It's nice to have someone else making projects to pad out my terrible work ethic these days. Jesse Vs Emmet has had good progress but is mostly stagnant as of late (partially my doing), and I am likely to be busy in the coming weeks. I would not expect that to be released for a good while. In the meantime, I may throw together a solo blog of some sort. Who knows! Thanks for reading, be nice, and be on the lookout for L Vs Johan at some point in the future.


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The VSBA: Gorr VS Zamasu (Marvel Vs Dragon Ball)

“I s man one of God's blunders? Or is God one of man's blunders? ” -Friedrich Nietzsche Gorr , the God Butcher Zamasu , the One True...